Tuesday, April 1, 2014

working4christ2 I have been a Christian most of my life but depended on my “smart” reading of the bible and superior intellect to gaurantee I knew everything.

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Unread Mar 29, '14, 8:13 am
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Default Re: What would you like to ask a Catholic?

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Originally Posted by PJM View Post
Here are a couple of ways:

[1] We Christians Hold to the belief of ONLY One TRUE God right? [RIGHT}

Well One God can and DOES have the ability to have ONLY One set of Faith beliefs. &
its impossible that God would have waited i=until Henry the 8th, Wycliffe, Calvin, Luther, or Smith [or for that matter anyone else]; over ONE THOUSAND YEARS to introduce His One true Faith.

Faith is and must be [no other option exist] SINGULAR per defined item.

Christ following His Own OT tradition of JUST "One Chosen people"; freely and prudently choose to FOUND Only His one catholic church.

Luther himself choose to become a catholic priest before choosing to leave the only church founded by God and protected by God. [Mt. 16:15-19 & John 17: 14-20]

No where in the bible is there authority to separate from Christ Church and start a competing religion. No "Justification" for these mortal mens decision can be shown AND Proven. Certainly NOT from the bible itself.

[2] From the bible is read carefully, paying close attention to the "tense" our Good God infallibly choose to use' READ:

Mt. 10: 1-8
Mt. 16:15-19
John 17:14-20
Mk. 16:14-15
Mt. 28:16-20
Eph. 4:4-7
Heb. 6: 1-8 [speaking here of apostates]

There is much more, but pray and ponder these two,

God Bless you, and THANKS for asking,
Patrick,
PJM.
Let's take the denominations of the reformation out of the mix.

How did you determine your church is the one true church and not the Orthodox Church, or the Oriental Orthodox, without using your own private interpretation? Can not these churches claim at least as old as the RC, and have a decent argument for it?
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Unread Mar 29, '14, 8:55 am
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Default Re: What would you like to ask a Catholic?

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Yes, both the Pope and Magisterium are fine per the Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue as the proper institutions of the Church. Lutherans don't accept infallibility but are very cordial with the Vatican and especially fond of the brilliant Benedict and, of -course, the whole world loves the holy Father, Francis.
I noticed you are in Metro NY. Are you LCMS or ELCA?
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Unread Mar 29, '14, 8:55 am
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Default Re: What would you like to ask a Catholic?

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=House Harkonnen;11846864]Let's take the denominations of the reformation out of the mix.

How did you determine your church is the one true church and not the Orthodox Church, or the Oriental Orthodox, without using your own private interpretation? Can not these churches claim at least as old as the RC, and have a decent argument for it?
Thanks for asking;

[1] t is indisputable fact that Peter,was freely chosen by Christ to head His One true God; One true faith and in only One church; which follows OT tradition of One God; Faith and People.

Go back to my previous post and READ carefully the bible reference I gave.

[2] Todays Catholic [RCC] Church was the ONLY recognized form of Christianity to exist ANYWHERE in the world until the Great Eastern Schism. a Period of about ONE THOUSAND YEARS

[3] Even the Early Church Fathers agreed with this:

The Early Church Fathers on
The Primacy of Peter/Rome
The Early Church Fathers understood from the beginning that Peter and his successors held a place of primacy in the Church.

Clement of Rome
Accept our counsel and you will have nothing to regret. . . . If anyone disobeys the things which have been said by him [Jesus] through us, let them know that they will involve themselves in no small danger. We, however, shall be innocent of this sin and will pray with entreaty and supplication that the Creator of all may keep unharmed the number of his elect (Letter to the Corinthians 58:2, 59:1[A.D. 95]).

Ignatius of Antioch
You [the See of Rome] have envied no one, but others have you taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force (Epistle to the Romans 3:1 [A.D. 110]).

Irenaeus
But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles. Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [inter A.D. 180-190]).

Clement of Alexandria
[T]he blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? "Behold, we have left all and have followed you" [Matt. 19:2 7, Mark 10:28] (Who is the Rich Man That is Saved? 21:3-5 [A.D. 200]).

Tertullian
[T]he Lord said to Peter, "On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven" [Matt. 16:18-19]. ... Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loose
and, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).

Letter of Clement to James
Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first-fruits of our Lord, the first of the apostles; to whom first the Father revealed the Son; whom the Christ, with good reason, blessed; the called, and elect (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D, 221]).

Cyprian
With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the Chair of Peter and to the principal church [at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its source" (Epistle to Cornelius [Bishop of Rome] 59:14 [A.D. 252]).

The Lord says to Peter: "I say to you," he says, "that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church" . . . On him he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church? (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4 [A.D. 251]).

God Bless you, and Thanks for asking,
Patrick [PJM]
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A.B. Fulton Sheen: "The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it."
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Unread Mar 29, '14, 9:06 am
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Default Re: What would you like to ask a Catholic?

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I noticed you are in Metro NY. Are you LCMS or ELCA?
Metro New York Synod/ ELCA. Have good friends in Brooklyn!
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Unread Mar 29, '14, 10:00 am
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Default Re: What would you like to ask a Catholic?

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Originally Posted by PJM View Post
Thanks for asking;

[1] t is indisputable fact that Peter,was freely chosen by Christ to head His One true God; One true faith and in only One church; which follows OT tradition of One God; Faith and People.

Go back to my previous post and READ carefully the bible reference I gave.

[2] Todays Catholic [RCC] Church was the ONLY recognized form of Christianity to exist ANYWHERE in the world until the Great Eastern Schism. a Period of about ONE THOUSAND YEARS

[3] Even the Early Church Fathers agreed with this:

God Bless you, and Thanks for asking,
Patrick [PJM]
Quote:
[1] t is indisputable fact that Peter,was freely chosen by Christ to head His One true God; One true faith and in only One church; which follows OT tradition of One God; Faith and People.

Go back to my previous post and READ carefully the bible reference I gave.

[2] Todays Catholic [RCC] Church was the ONLY recognized form of Christianity to exist ANYWHERE in the world until the Great Eastern Schism. a Period of about ONE THOUSAND YEARS
That really depends on your own personal outlook right? The EO claim to the hold to the faith of Peter. Again, all about personal interpretation. They claim that Orthodoxy was the ONLY recognized form of Christianity until the RC broke it off.

Quote:
[3] Even the Early Church Fathers agreed with this:
No. That's all on personal interpretation as well. For example usually when the fathers say Peter, some interpret them to be meaning modern Roman Catholic Church. Antioch was also the see of Peter. The Orthodox believe that they are holding to the faith of Peter in which all bishops share the ministry of Peter, Peter being the princeps of the apostles such as each bishop is the princeps of his territory, again personal interpretation. I just don't see any way to get around it. That's why I think Catholic apologists should stop using the "personal interpretation" argument against Protestants.
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Unread Mar 29, '14, 1:25 pm
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Default Re: What would you like to ask a Catholic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJM View Post
Here are a couple of ways:

[1] We Christians Hold to the belief of ONLY One TRUE God right? [RIGHT}

Well One God can and DOES have the ability to have ONLY One set of Faith beliefs. &
its impossible that God would have waited i=until Henry the 8th, Wycliffe, Calvin, Luther, or Smith [or for that matter anyone else]; over ONE THOUSAND YEARS to introduce His One true Faith.

Faith is and must be [no other option exist] SINGULAR per defined item.

Christ following His Own OT tradition of JUST "One Chosen people"; freely and prudently choose to FOUND Only His one catholic church.


There is much more, but pray and ponder these two,

God Bless you, and THANKS for asking,
Patrick,
PJM.

Catholic answers forum and the rest of Christ's church

I have been a Christian most of my life but depended on my “smart” reading of the bible and superior intellect to gaurantee I knew everything.

Of course I had no Holy Spirit power evident in my life such as tongues, prophecy, miracles, even victory over my vices and flesh nature.

I was sure that Christians who spoke in tongues were possessed or so spiritually retarded that they were just making the sounds to try and pretend to be like Jesus’ disciples.

Everyone who I met who spoke in tongues was definitely not smarter than me.

And they read some scriptures weird.

Plus I got the highest score in my college phsyics class and am a commercial pilot and computer programmer to boot! How could babbling buffons know more about the bible than me?!!!

After about 10 years of this though — my leaven wore thin and I got sick of “knowing” so much about the bible but living in defeat to my flesh and fasted for 3 days to see if God would make me like the apostles (or at least not like the Pharisees which is what I felt like) then it happened.

After 1 1/2 days of fasting I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and started speaking in tongues and my whole life changed. Then my wife followed suit 3 months later. Our life hasn’t been the same since.. this book describes everything EXACTLY as it is with tongues and the baptism and explains the different types of tongues that can manifest for different reasons.

I sympathize with Christians who think tongues is optional and not for all and maybe they’re right. But I also know from experience that Christians who do speak in tongues are usually on fire for God (even if they are a little wacky sometimes).

If I could have read this book 10 years ago I’m sure it would have knocked the spiritual smugness right out of me and got me depending on the Holy Spirit through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit instead of my flesh.

In Summary — if you are living in defeat to the flesh and struggling with addictions to food, drugs, porn, whatever — don’t go to more church meetings, or buy expensive courses, or go see famous preachers — read this book and see what happens when you make drawing near to God your goal come hell or highwater.
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Unread Mar 29, '14, 3:56 pm
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Re: What would you like to ask a Catholic?

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=House Harkonnen;11847166]That really depends on your own personal outlook right? The EO claim to the hold to the faith of Peter. Again, all about personal interpretation. They claim that Orthodoxy was the ONLY recognized form of Christianity until the RC broke it off.

No. That's all on personal interpretation as well. For example usually when the fathers say Peter, some interpret them to be meaning modern Roman Catholic Church. Antioch was also the see of Peter. The Orthodox believe that they are holding to the faith of Peter in which all bishops share the ministry of Peter, Peter being the princeps of the apostles such as each bishop is the princeps of his territory, again personal interpretation. I just don't see any way to get around it. That's why I think Catholic apologists should stop using the "personal interpretation" argument against Protestants.
Friend, I'm BIG on truth, and what you share isn't it. If they held to "Peter" their WOULD HAVE BEEN NO SCHISM

Please read this from a VERY non-catholic site

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your final comment about the Protestants. Please give me a bit more information. And please understand that what I shared is the position of the RCC and Christ Himself; not only my opinion.

God Bless you,
Patrick

God Bless you,
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Unread Mar 29, '14, 4:31 pm
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Default Re: What would you like to ask a Catholic?

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Originally Posted by PJM View Post
Friend, I'm BIG on truth, and what you share isn't it. If they held to "Peter" their WOULD HAVE BEEN NO SCHISM

Please read this from a VERY non-catholic site

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your final comment about the Protestants. Please give me a bit more information. And please understand that what I shared is the position of the RCC and Christ Himself; not only my opinion.

God Bless you,
Patrick

God Bless you,
Quote:
Friend, I'm BIG on truth, and what you share isn't it. If they held to "Peter" their WOULD HAVE BEEN NO SCHISM
No, they see the Roman Church as the ones who are not following the faith of Peter. Remember that one See of Peter (Antioch) went with Constantinople in the Schism. So we have one faith of Peter, and another faith of Peter. All depends on ones own personal interpretation right?

Quote:
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your final comment about the Protestants. Please give me a bit more information. And please understand that what I shared is the position of the RCC and Christ Himself; not only my opinion.
I was listening to Catholic radio and Marcus Grodi said that the main problem with Protestantism is "personal interpretation". I immediately thought how hypocritical that statement was. I cannot think of a way around it, all use their personal interpretation at least to a degree.
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Unread Mar 30, '14, 4:11 am
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Default Re: What would you like to ask a Catholic?

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Metro New York Synod/ ELCA. Have good friends in Brooklyn!
There are a fair amount of Lutherans in my area of Brooklyn.
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Unread Mar 30, '14, 11:41 am
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Default Re: What would you like to ask a Catholic?

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Well here is something I'd like to ask a Catholic. What is attending a mass like? I'd imagine the experience differs from church to church, but generally what goes on during a mass on Sundays?
Actually you can watch mass on You-tube easy. But the daily mass has some latin in it and most churches are in english now. Mostly the basic mass is the same. Also alot of the ewtn shows are also on you-tube, Try marcus grode coming home, he discusses a lot of differences.
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